Two in Chat Know a Lot About That (Book Contracts) - National Society of Newspaper Columnists

By Dave Astor
NSNC Archivist

Lisa Smith Molinari and Lori B. Duff are award-winning columnists/bloggers, authors, attorneys, and NSNC board members who were scheduled to co-host a session on book contracts at our June 11-14, 2020, conference in Tulsa. So, I set up a “live” Facebook Messenger conversation with them to discuss that session, and the three-way chat took place on March 18.

Twelve days later, on March 30, NSNC board members voted with heavy hearts to cancel the Tulsa conference in the wake of the devastating coronavirus pandemic. But we’re still publishing Lisa and Lori’s informative (and fun) discussion. After all, book contracts are always a topic of great interest to an NSNC membership that includes many authors and would-be authors.

The conversation with Lori and past NSNC president Lisa (both of whom are adept at serious and humorous writing) was slightly edited after the fact. And when you see the conference references in this transcript, remember that the Tulsa meeting was still on as of March 18.

Dave Astor: Why is learning more about book contracts so important?

Lori B. Duff: Lawyers are the best at thinking of potential catastrophes, since we are the ones that have to clean up the mess when things go wrong. So, we are also the best at thinking ahead of time about how to head things off at the pass so they don’t go wrong in the first place. That’s the point of our talk – how to make sure your contract covers all the potential contingencies so that things don’t go wrong. Theoretically, a book contract should be one of the most exciting times in a writer’s life. We want to keep it that way.

Dave: Excellent points, Lori. And to be a lawyer AND a professional writer is a bonus.

Lori: Also, we don’t want you cussing at your contract down the line!

Dave: So, no four-letter words other than “cash” ?

Lori: Exactly!

Lisa Smith Molinari: I think our session on book contracts will be helpful for anyone who thinks they might publish a book one day because we are going to address the basic elements of any book contract (traditional or hybrid publishing) that every author should know. But, also, our session will be entertaining on some level, because believe it or not, lawyers are funny!

Lori: We, in particular, are funny.

Lisa: Lori and I have the “trifecta” of funny because we are lawyers, mothers, AND writers.

Dave: LOL – you and Lori prove that lawyers can indeed be funny! And parenting DOES require a major sense of humor. And, yes, learning the basics are really helpful, because many writers are not always great at also being businesspeople.

Lori: Writing really is a business. Sometimes I think the writing is the easy part.

Dave: True, Lori, especially these days when so many writers freelance.

Lori: Lawyers are also the best at cleaning up messes because of all of that. I remember one day my son dumped a bowl of cereal off of his high chair and as I cleaned it up I just started crying, “This is all I do all day, every day! At work and at home! Clean up other people’s messes!”

Dave: Yikes, Lori – I remember those toss-food-off-high-chair days. Basketball dunkers in training…

Lisa: In all seriousness, I think Lori and I have analytic styles that complement each other and will prove worthwhile for a conference session. I have a very detail-oriented mind – I actually enjoy getting down in the weeds – and Lori has a wonderful way of seeing the big picture and distilling details down to easy-to-understand points.

Dave: Details and big picture – great combination!

Lori: It’s true – we are good partners because of that. We have different strengths. But similar senses of humor.

Dave: And both of you have first names starting with “L”…

Lori: Four-letter names starting with “L” – speaking of four letter words…

Dave: Ha! Will you also each approach the session a bit differently because you, Lisa, are a first-time author this year, while you, Lori, have written a number of books?

Lori: I think that helped us in dividing up what we were speaking about, because we have a different knowledge base. Neither of us were territorial about anything, which is also a positive aspect of having complementary skill sets.

Lisa: We took different paths with our own personal book contracts. Lori went with a hybrid approach and has written several books, and I went traditional because I was a first-timer and not confident in my ability to negotiate the business alone. Although our session will stick to elements common to both types of contracts, we will point out the most important differences in rights.

Lori: A lot of that is personality type, too. I think I’m more of a control freak than Lisa.

Dave: Control freak can be good at contract time! Lori, how many books have you written, under your own name and as a ghostwriter?
(Editor’s note: Lori’s most recent book under her own name is “ If You Did What I Asked in the First Place .”)

Lori: I’ve written four under my own name, and have contributed to two anthologies. I’ve also ghostwritten seven books that were published.

Dave: Thanks for those numbers, Lori. Lisa, your book is coming out May 1?
(Editor’s note: Lisa’s book is “ The Meat and Potatoes of Life: My True Lit Com .”)

Lisa: Yes, May 1 is my official date, one week before Military Spouse Appreciation Day, and nine days before Mother’s Day

Dave: Thanks, Lisa. Lori and Lisa, how have your current/past experiences as attorneys helped you with book contracts?

Lisa: When I practiced – which by the way was back in the olden days when we filed our papers in court using bicycle messengers and didn’t use email – I was involved in large litigation cases that required a lot of research and motion practice. That became my forte – research, analysis, and writing.

Dave: Lisa, that sounds like really helpful experience even years later.

Lori: Lawyers read things differently than regular humans. Legalese is a language that looks suspiciously like English, because it uses the same words, but they can have completely different meanings. More precise. So being a lawyer helps me to read the contracts in Legalese instead of English. I also “So what if…” each and every sentence to prepare for contingencies.

Dave : I hear you, Lori. My wife and I redid our wills, etc., last year, and it was…interesting.

Lori: Seventy-five words to say, “My wife gets everything.”

Dave: Ha!

Lori: But only two to say, “But if she dies before me, then I want it divided evenly between my children, and if one of my children dies before me, I want my children’s children to get my child’s share, unless they don’t have children, in which case, their sibling gets it.” (Per stirpes.)

Dave: I’m having post-traumatic flashbacks…

Lori: Ha!

Lisa: Thankfully, I came into legal research back when there was a movement toward “plain English” in legal writing, so I didn’t use too many “heretofores” in my briefs. But I’ve read plenty of pleadings and briefs that sound like an ambulance chaser in Shakespeare’s day.

Dave: LOL! Good to know legal documents don’t have to be TOO obtuse.

Lori: Even plain English can have pitfalls, though. Words can have very specific meanings in legalese that they don’t have in English. Words like “delivery” and “publish.”

Dave: Lori, in other words, “it’s complicated”…

Lori: Correct. Which is why lawyers never say “yes” or “no,” they always say “depends.”

Dave: And “depends” has more letters!

Lori: Ergo, you can charge more!

Dave: Ha! One bitcoin per letter. Should writers with no legal experience use attorneys for book contracts, or try to negotiate themselves?

Lori: I would never recommend that a layperson sign a legal document without having a lawyer translate it into English for them. Whether a lawyer needs to negotiate it, I don’t know.

Dave: I personally think an attorney should be involved. I used one myself when a small press published my first book.

Lisa: I am a lawyer, but I reached out to another lawyer to read my contract, so YES absolutely, I recommend that every author find a lawyer who understands contract language to review their contracts. It is up to the author to then decide whether to use that lawyer to represent them in negotiating with the publisher. I had a lawyer read my contract and make recommendations, then I did the negotiating myself.

Lori: ^^ That.

Dave: Excellent advice, Lisa. Will there be any self-publishing aspect to the book-contract session?

Lori: Yes.

Dave: Just a few more questions, getting a bit more general. Have either of you been to Tulsa before? If so, thoughts about the city? I haven’t been there myself.

Lori: I have not. The closest I’ve been is Houston, which isn’t very close, but I’m excited to go. It seems to have a very rich history.

Lisa: Our military family has moved 11 times, and lived in two foreign countries, but there are so many places we haven’t seen in the good ol’ USA, so I am really looking forward to experiencing Oklahoma.

Dave: Lisa, you have lived in MANY places.

Lisa: I’ve never been to Tulsa, but for some reason every time I say the word I drool a little thinking of BBQ.

Lori: Ha! I think you have a little sauce on your chin. Yeah, I don’t associate the cuisine with vegetables.

Dave: Dang – no vegetarian BBQ? (I’m a vegetarian.)

Lori: Maybe they have jackfruit?

Dave: LOL!

Lori: Probably fried okra. I’d bet money the vegetables are cooked in fatback.

Dave : aka “Veggie Death”!

Lisa: If the BBQ sauce is good, you can slather it on anything you want!

Dave: Good point, Lisa. I love BBQ sauce!

Lori: You can always just get a bowl and eat it like soup.

Dave: BBQ-sauce soup! Yes! Anyway, brief thoughts about the NSNC: What do you like about the organization?

Lori: The camaraderie.

Lisa: Absolutely!

Dave: The camaraderie IS wonderful.

Lori: The support and opportunity, the lack of competition. Especially now that journalists are being attacked it helps to have other wagons to circle with.

Lisa: Our organization is truly unique in that way. The connections we make are personal and genuine.

Dave: Great points!

Lisa: I joined online when we were stationed in Germany because I needed some kind of contact with columnists. I needed to feel a part of a group. Then, when we moved back to the States in 2012, I went to my first conference in Macon, Georgia, and met lifelong friends.

Dave: Lisa, it sounds like the NSNC was/is so important to you. As it also is to you, Lori.

Lisa: Plus, all NSNC events have a very playful, humorous aspect. We have to force ourselves to get serious sometimes, which I love!

Lori: I love that about it, too. The work we do is serious, but we don’t take ourselves so seriously.

Dave: Very true. I’ve been in/covered other organizations, and, with the exception of cartoonist groups, have never seen any group as fun as the NSNC. While also being serious when needed.

Lisa: Aside from the camaraderie and fun, I truly learned so much from my NSNC colleagues about writing, journalistic standards, self-syndication, freelancing, and the list goes on. No doubt about it, NSNC helped me grow my column.

Dave: Yes, the NSNC is incredibly educational and helpful. Two more questions and then an “anything else to add” final question. How is the coronavirus crisis affecting you both? In the professional realm during such a crisis, does it help that writers often work from home?

Lisa: It’s amazing that, no matter what happens in the world, when you are a writer who works from home, your job does not pause for any reason – vacation, illness, and global pandemic!

Dave: True, Lisa. Writing can be 24/7/365, whatever is going on. Or 366 this year…

Lisa: So, other than the coronavirus affecting what topic I will cover each week, my column must go on no matter what. However, I get the best writing done in coffee shops, and they are all closed here in Rhode Island, so I guess I’ll be at my kitchen table.

Dave: That kind of adjustment can be hard. Many of us are creatures of habit. Lori, where are you based?

Lori: I’m in Georgia. The coronavirus has made my life strange. I am a municipal court judge and the vice president of the state municipal court judges’ council. So, I’ve been involved in state planning in how to handle that. It’s been bizarre, and we’ve shut down the courts for a month, handling only pressing matters which we are handling virtually. In my law office, we’re only “meeting” people virtually. In some ways, it’s made my life easier, because without having to run around like a crazy person I’ve been able to catch up on things. I have very involved teenagers, and I’m always going to concerts and things, and now I don’t. I’ve had time to sit and think and do laundry and write and tackle the mountain of paperwork on my desk. The virus is horrible – don’t get me wrong – I’m not the least bit glad for it, but it has really made me stop and think how much is going on in my life.

Dave: Things are indeed different and strange but you’re right that there’s less to do in a way. All my younger daughter’s sports have stopped for now, so no chauffeuring. And that daughter is “going to” school online at home, and my professor wife is teaching online from home. Crowded apartment…

Lisa: By the way, my trip to Key West [Lisa returned from Florida the day before this conversation] was bizarre because one day my daughter and I were in a conga line at a Latin bar on the water, touching sweaty strangers, and three days later the governor shut down all bars and restaurants.

Dave: Wow – yet another example of how things changed so quickly.

Lori: I hope the sweaty conga people were merely drunk and not sick!

Lisa: We have nicknamed Anna, our drama queen middle child who loves to play the victim, “Pandanna” because she is bellyaching so much about how the virus has affected her life. She is a college senior and her semester has gone totally online and her graduation ceremony is canceled.

Dave: Ouch, Lisa – very difficult for a senior.

Lori: My son plays the oboe with the Atlanta Symphony Youth Orchestra, and he was supposed to have a concert on Sunday and Monday, and that was canceled. We were supposed to see “Miss Saigon” tomorrow night; that isn’t happening. Prom was supposed to be on Saturday; that isn’t happening. My daughter’s youth symphony was supposed to have a thing this weekend; that isn’t happening. I was supposed to speak at a local writers’ conference this weekend; that isn’t happening. And that’s just this week!

Dave: SO many cancellations, Lori! Awful, albeit necessary.

Lori: On the upside, my dog is THRILLED about all the extra attention he’s getting.

Dave: My cat, too!

Lisa: It is a strange time, and I think it is healthy for people to use moments like this to put things in perspective. What is most important in life? What isn’t that important? It makes us think deeply about things we normally take for granted.

Lori: Exactly.

Lisa: Like toilet paper!

Lori: Ha!

Dave: Ha!

Lisa: We have ten rolls in our house, so I am very grateful.

Lori: My husband has this annoying habit of buying eight of whatever is “buy one, get one free” at Publix and then storing it in the basement. I’ve been yelling at him for literally decades about this. And now, he seems like the conquering hero.

Dave: Hoard-a-culture…

Lori: Ha!

Dave: Conquering hero – funny!

Lori: We have metric tons of toilet paper and paper towels and canned goods and boxes of stuff and rice, and we haven’t bought anything since Coronapocalypse hit. We also live on 18 acres where there are plenty of deer and a stream runs through. Our house is really where you want to be. Except for the crazy people who live there.

Dave: Nice to have that space.

Lori: Outdoors we do. Inside is crammed with the crazy people and the hoarder’s stash of canned goods.

Lisa: It is interesting to note that this global pandemic may be something to consider when signing a book contract… With a May 1 publication date, I have been wondering how this might affect the success of my book. I may have to cancel my launch party and have been wondering how I change my marketing strategy? Will this affect distribution channels? Will the public’s attention be on the pandemic and no one will care about my book? Or will they be home so much that they will want more books to read?

Dave: Very good, worrisome questions, Lisa.

Lori: You may have to cancel your launch party, but honestly I think it will positively affect online sales which are probably the bulk of them. Think outside of the box! Facebook Live launch party! Then I can go!

Lisa: I’ll definitely talk to you about that!

Lori: I can send you a Zoom link so it can be interactive for up to 50 of your friends.

Lisa: Should I have insisted on a contract clause that provided for publication-date wiggle room in the event of an “act of God”? Is this pandemic an “act of God”???? So many questions!

Dave: How could anyone have predicted this last fall…

Lori: Not possible.

Dave: Anything else either of you would like to say? If not, -30- !

Later on March 18, Lisa emailed more specifics about what she and Lori would have discussed in Tulsa. Lisa wrote:

Here are the broad areas we [would have covered] in our session about signing book-publishing contracts:

1. Who owns what and for how long? (Grant of rights, Time and Territory clauses, Sub-rights, etc.)

2. What do you have to pay? (Hybrid compared to Traditional.)

3. What do you get paid, when, and by whom? (Royalties, Timelines for payment, Payer options.)

4. What do you have to do? (Manuscript delivery, Editing, Marketing, Distribution.)

5. How much say do you have? (Editorial Control, Consultation Rights vs. Approval Rights, etc.)

We [would have had] a fabulous and funny PowerPoint slideshow to accompany our talk, and provided excerpts from real-life contracts – names redacted to protect privacy of course. And we [would have had] copies of our books for sale and signing after the show.